A recovering pessimist. That’s what I like to call myself. I spent the majority of my adult life wallowing in negativity and a “poor me” mindset. I don’t think you need me to point out that it isn’t a cute look.

It’s still pretty crazy to me that I managed to turn it around, to be honest. But I did.

I talk about how I did it in an episode of The Creator Club Podcast, as well as my journey from corporate life to life coaching (and what the hell that even is).

We cover comfort zones, crap genetics, why I’m ok with people touching my face now and plenty more. If you’re over your current reality and have 45 mins to spare, it’s worth a listen.


John: You’re here with John Marsh. This is the Creator Club Podcast. And today we’ve got Nick White.

Nick: I have spent most of my career in, let’s say corporate. Yeah. It’s not all corporate, but in the design industry, user interface design, digital design. I studied graphic design at uni. So my journey kind of went from there. I studied graphic design at uni because I actually came out of school not knowing what the hell I wanted to do. I then went and did an art foundation course, which is a course in the UK that you go away and do for a year, and in that, you explore different parts of art and design. And I just happened to be quite good at the graphic design bit.

So I was like, let’s do that. I remember at the time there were two big ways that I wanted to go. It was graphic design or it was psychology and they were the two things I was interested in. I went down the graphic design route and so then my career just went through that.

So I started with internships and I made my way up through the ranks in London. I was living in London at the time. I was just taking job after job doing that, and it was okay to start with, I really enjoyed it. But, as the years went by, I learned pretty early on that I had this feeling that was always there. I would talk to my friends about it all the time that there was something else that I was supposed to be doing. 

I had no idea what it was, but it was just this thing. You can call it imposter syndrome or whatever you want to call it but I felt like it was even more than that. I was taking these jobs and look, I was getting good roles, good money. There was no reason for me to doubt my skills in any of these things, but I always just felt like this thing was there and I did nothing about it. I just kept going through and I was pretty miserable. I’ve always been very negative. I like to think of myself as a recovering pessimist now.

My big thing was that I was super negative. I was really hard on myself all the time. I don’t know if it’s a big British thing as well, to be really sarcastic, and really disingenuous a lot of the time. I’d make fun of myself, I would make fun of other people. I didn’t really like getting too close to people.

I had a big thing about physical affection, hugging, and I really didn’t like people touching my face because I used to have acne and it was this whole big thing. I was super paranoid about people going anywhere near my face cause they would have dirty hands or whatever. They’d give me more spots. So I was going through all of this stuff with just feeling stuck, feeling a bit lost. 

John: How old were you, at this point? 

Nick: How old was I? So that was my twenties. That was in my twenties I was doing that.

And I went to see a therapist. I went to do some CBT therapy and that was actually really good, to be honest. It helped me at the time. It helped me work through some stuff that I had going on but it didn’t really stick. It didn’t really go anywhere. 

So after, I’m trying to think, how old was I now? I got to 28 and I’d just started this other job. I’d been in it for three months and got made redundant and it took me ages to find that job. I wanted to wait for exactly the right job, and I thought I’d found this great design agency. Then they made me redundant and I was like, well, fuck, what do I do now? 

Then I caught up with a friend of mine. I always remember this conversation ’cause I feel like it’s this turning point for me. He had just been to see a mutual friend of ours that had moved to Australia. Done the British thing of, I always say this thing about how Aussies and Brits do their pilgrimage to the other country. That they have to do it.

He said he was over there and he was loving it. He was like, look, you’re young, you’re single. you don’t like who you’re living with (’cause I was having some issues with my housemates at the time as well), and you’ve got no job. Why don’t you just move to Australia? 

I was like, I can’t think of any reason not to, apart from that I wanted to give myself a bit more work experience to arm myself properly going over with. He planted that seed and I followed it to a tee. I gave myself a year’s more experience in the design industry. That job was a bit weird as well because I knew the entire time that I was leaving it and moving to Australia, but they didn’t know that.

Then 29 hit, because you have to be under 31 to move to Australia with the working holiday stuff, and I moved over here. I was like, right, I’m going to move to Australia and my life is going to change and everything’s going to be amazing and it’s all just going to fall into place. ‘Cause I was just like, I’m not going anywhere in London. In London, nothing’s happening. I just feel like there’s this thing. 

So I moved and it was amazing. I loved it. I got sponsored to stay on. When you move over here, I was on a working holiday visa, you can stay here for a year. If you want to extend that to two years, you can do, I don’t think it’s officially called farm work, I’m not sure what it is, but, I was like, I’ll cross that bridge at the time because I’m not really liking the idea of hanging out with 18-year-olds doing their thing. It wasn’t really that appealing. But I was like, I’ll cross that bridge if I really want to stay, but I didn’t have to think of that. Then I got sponsored in it. 

So this is the thing, I still had to put working out what the career was going to be on hold because I had to do what I needed to do to stay in the country. So I had to stay in the job I was in to get sponsored. Then as soon as it got to permanent residency, I was like, okay, I’m in now. I can finally do something about this thing that has always been there. And that was the start. That’s when I hired a coach. That was the beginning of it.

Through working with her for a few months, I tried loads of different things and was like, that’s still not it. That’s kind of the same as this thing, but just in a different industry. This is just still going to be me doing this, this lifestyle, this office job, whatever you want to call it, but just in a different industry. And after a while, I was like, wait a minute, I want to do this. I want to do what you’re doing. So that’s the whole thing that brought me to this. 

John: Do you want to talk a little bit about your experience that first time with the coach? Like what you got out of it relative to. You know, you would try other therapies where you try to have the stuff in the past. Like what struck you about the work that you did with this coach that impacted you, I suppose?

Nick: So, yeah, I’ll be honest. When I hired her, I didn’t really know what a coach did. I don’t really know what we’re going to be doing, but I just know that it’s not happening doing it by myself. It’s been years now and I haven’t done anything about it. I need somebody to help me with this. It was a case of just going into it, I got a good vibe from her, just going for it. I was like, why not give it a go? 

Some of it was bloody hard, cause you don’t take the time to focus on a lot of this stuff. You don’t take the time to really think about it and push yourself out of the comfort zone. I mean, this is a big thing of mine. It’s a cliche, but it’s so true the whole pushing yourself out the comfort zone stuff. That’s why nothing had changed for me ‘cause I was just doing the same thing. Why would it, why would it just waiting for things to happen? So working with her, we would work on certain things each week. Some things would help me relook at stuff that had happened in the past, or look for little kind of keys that were there. Little signs. 

Other things were getting me to do stuff now to get me trying new things. And it’s super interesting. It was like, this is great. At the time as well, it didn’t enter my head. The reason why it took so long to come to that conclusion about coaching myself is because I still didn’t fully understand the difference.

I was getting coaching and mentoring mixed up a bit because I’d spoken to a couple of other coaches. Part of my thing with her was going out and speaking to people to see what they did, and I spoke to some and was like, oh, that sounds cool. But maybe something later down the line, cause I’ve got no experience to like help people with this stuff.

And it’s like, oh wait. When the penny dropped that coaching and mentoring are different. That you would go to a mentor if you want somebody that had done exactly that thing before and you want advice from them. Coaching isn’t that it’s somebody that is asking you the right questions, keeping you accountable, helping you up the hill, but they’re not doing it for you. So that’s why I was like, oh, this sounds super cool. I wanna know more about this.

John: I love it. That must’ve been quite the journey for both you and for her having been the pessimist coming into the room. 

Nick: Yeah. Well, that’s been the big thing, that’s appealed to me from the start from me taking myself to be trained as a coach and working as a coach. I mean, this is why I see it as the perfect job. 

Is that working in it, I’m working on myself constantly at the same time. And I’ve seen such a difference from that. Like, it’s crazy. I mean, my partner said it to me a few weeks ago. He was like, why are you, he was in a bit of a mood with me at the time, why are you happy all the time? And it just really hit me. Wait, what? I’ve never thought about that. Cause I would never class myself as that before, like no way. So the fact that somebody is actually saying that to me, I was like, oh shit, this stuff really works.

John: Yeah. So good. So good. So could you tell us about your transition or what that was like to take action? Did you get certification or how did you, I guess, step into that new career? Cause that’s kind of a scary thing for people, right? Like when you’re moving out of one and stepping across. 

Nick: Yeah. Well yeah, as soon as I realised that was the thing I didn’t waste any time, I was like, right, let’s look up places that I could train and suss them out. I picked one that I really resonated with and I got my certification. And then the process of that is you have your certification then you’re ongoing training in it as well. So you’re constantly adding to your training. But yeah, the transition, it’s tricky because it’s gone from the comfortable life that I had before, where I’d clock in nine to five, done. This is why I always knew that it wasn’t the right thing because once five o’clock hit, I did not want to talk about design. I didn’t want to think about design. I didn’t want to go to see design exhibitions or anything like that. Once five o’clock hit, I’m done, I’m going to do something else. And I don’t believe that work and life need to be these separate things.

It’s like, you’ve got your work that is this horrible thing. And then you’ve got all your playtime out of it. Cause it’s like, you spend so much time at work. It just doesn’t make sense. So it’s juggling those two things. But I guess if you really want something, then you just put in the extra effort.

John: Yeah. To take what was, you know, once you finished up the certification, obviously, you know, you’re, you’re creating a business and your looking for clients and your starting to, you know, kind of grow down that road. What was some of that like? Because I think a lot of people probably would go through.

As far as the certification with, with all things right now, like personal training with anything, a degree in university coaching and then may or may not see it through from the business perspective or from, you know, beyond that point. Cause it’s a different set of challenges. What was that like for you and how did that feel to kind of get the first clients and start to work with people live and do that whole thing.

Nick: Well, I mean yeah, it’s hard. I started off how I imagine most of the people on the course with me did, is that you practice with each other and that’s how you kick it all off and you try and get the hours in and just getting comfortable with everything. Then you coach your friends and people that you know, and then from that, maybe your friends know people and then it just happens organically again. It’s a pretty long process and it’s also you, well if I talk about myself, getting that confidence is like, yeah sure, you can learn this thing, but actually doing it is a lot harder. And I kind of think as well, being a good coach is kind of the easy part. It’s like the actual hard part is finding, having the clients to work with because, just using myself as an example, I know that this stuff works because the change in me has been crazy, but other people don’t know that.

And it’s like how you need to, not convince them, but help, I don’t even know how to put it. Educate. I don’t know. It’s like helping other people. I want other people to experience this because I know it’s so good. And I’m sure everyone says that about their, their business.

John: Yes. Just getting that message out there and in a way that people understand, have you found that as you’ve, I guess, felt this transformation or as you’ve kind of grown or, or changed personally, that it’s now easier to have the conversations, or it’s easier to talk to people about it or to get into dialogue around coaching or even to coach them then before you were obviously before you were trained, but like, I guess the old Nick, like, you know how you’ve shifted now into, I guess, for lack of a better term, less of a pessimist.

Yeah. Lots happier, lots more magnetic. Like have you found that spin helpful from, I mean, you could almost call it a sales perspective, but even just entering conversations with people. 

Nick: Oh, totally. It’s all self-belief and I mean, that was the main thing for me. That’s the big thing that I kind of focus in on. It’s always about self-belief, self-esteem. The more you do, again, it’s the cliche of practice makes perfect. It’s a cliche for a reason. It’s like, you just do things over and over again, and then you eventually just become comfortable with them and they’re like nothing.

It’s like trying new things, putting different events out there, getting yourself on video, or putting yourself in conversations with people. It’s that. It all just always comes down to self-belief and it’s like, if you don’t, I mean, we’ve had this conversation a lot about my views of the life coach title. I had some big issues with calling myself a life coach to start with, especially because I position myself in a way that is anti-woo-woo. A lot of people hear the term life coach and they instantly go to that because I’ll be honest, that’s what I would have gone to before.

But then it’s like, well, what they think is none of my business. If they meet me and go, like you’ve said to me, they meet me and they’re like, oh, wait a minute, you’re not what I thought a life coach should be then it’s like, yeah, okay, fine, good. It’s not up to me to decide what you’re going to think.

John: Yeah. Yeah. And so that shift for you changes how you then show up to them. 

Nick: Yeah, exactly. ‘Cause then if you’re just owning it, then, I mean, that’s a big thing, awkwardness has been a lot bigger part of my life. So getting rid of any awkwardness is key. 

John: That’s often something that we’ll talk about.

Just, generally speaking, is that you can change your offer. Two ways. You can change your offer, like what the actual program is or whatever, or you can change your belief in your offer, and both then effectively change the offer for the other person.

So if I come in with a hey, and I don’t believe in it. And I come in with of a, and I really believe in it because I’ve done the work to consider how powerful it is and I can see it through the proof. The other person has a totally different lived experience of the offer. It’s basically a different offer. It’s that powerful? It’s very cool.

Okay. So I want to know how you found, because this might be happening subconsciously, possibly even automatically maybe, but you had this dissonance with the design side, but you also now are able to, you know, you’ve got a great website. You’re able to do social media. You’re able to, you know, not that it’s all about the brand identity or strategy or whatever in terms of life coaching, but a lot of people struggle with, you know, getting things out there and starting to, you know, put on events and advertise and run Facebook groups and things like that. You’ve done a very professional job, obviously drawing on, you know, your previous career. 

Could you talk a little bit about that? Do you even think about that or is that just sort of something you’re doing?

Nick: Oh yeah, definitely. I realised very early on that, oh, this is actually quite good. Because I’ll be honest, when I was making the transition I was like, oh, my industry doesn’t exactly… It was a big shift.

It’s like, I haven’t been in a people-facing role. I have at work in meetings and we would do user testing. So people weren’t people, they were users of a website or an app. So you have that, but it’s not the same. Which is kind of where some of this stuff came from to being a coach because I was looking back at kind of odd jobs of working in a shop and working in a bar and realised I’m really good at that stuff.

I actually missed that. There’s something here with working directly with people. And that’s why those other jobs that I was thinking about wouldn’t work either. So I was like, yeah, this is a bit of a leap. I don’t know how I’m going to have any transferable skills. And then you realise that there definitely are people transferable skills too.

But the design one, I was like, oh, this is actually really good because other people would have this artwork. It must be so daunting. So yes, you’re coaching, and maybe you’ve come from, I dunno, a similar kind of role. You have no idea about putting together design. I guess this is where Canva has become this big thing because it helps people do this that maybe don’t have that background. But I’m comforted in the fact that I don’t need to use things like Canva, unless I just prefer to. I have the understanding of, that kind of gives me a bit of a leg up. Like you say, it’s kind of that little, extra professional touch that maybe someone else wouldn’t have. I don’t know. 

John: Yeah. You know you can show up like a professional in your field pretty easily. Yeah. Uh, cool. So talk about some of the events and things that you’re doing organising wise.

I know you’ve got a Facebook group going and I mean, even obviously how this ties into your message with your coaching, we better cover that. Like what you’re sort of, you know, the backbone of your coaching is or what your sort of ethos or, or work is about. And then how you’ve organised stuff around that.

Nick: Yeah. Okay. So my, program is called The Happy Human Project and it’s all centered around helping humans, professionals, live happy, more fulfilled lives. So that’s the name of the program. That’s kind of the origin of it. That it’s started from the coaching program, which is the eight-week program that I started with.

But then from that, it’s kind of evolved now. I now have an offline event called Walk n’ Talk that I host on Sundays at Coogee in the morning, in Sydney. And basically, the purpose of that is to give something back to the community. So just offer a space for humans to connect in real life, especially after the COVID stuff, when we weren’t really having that connection.

And just to help people’s mental health a little bit, just to have people to talk to. Us humans, we’re social animals, right? Even, like I consider myself an introvert, maybe the more I’m realising that I’m maybe not as introverted as I used to think I was, but I would still consider myself quite introverted in some aspects.

But everybody likes that human interaction, whether it’s with groups of people, one-on-one whatever. Somebody needs to be that person, right? To organise it, to facilitate, to just put something out there. And I was looking for groups to join in the area to just get to know people.

‘Cause I recently, over the last few months, moved to Bondi. And I was like, okay, I’m looking to get to know the community a bit more, so why don’t I just start my own thing? My big thing is win the morning, win the day. So I feel like if you’re really sorted in the morning then the rest of your day flows way better. So let’s get something early in the morning. 7am. 

It’s supposed to be a little bit of a challenge ‘cause I understand that 7am on a Sunday can be, it could be, quite a challenge for some people. Maybe that’s their one lie-in in the week. But then that’s kind of supposed to be the point. It’s like, you don’t have to come every week, but if you challenge yourself, I always say to the people that come or they’re thinking of coming, just do it once, come once, just try it once, see how you go and I promise you, you won’t regret it. You’ll feel amazing afterwards. You’ll have met these new people and you’ve achieved something before 8am. Like, you’re done. 

And this, I’ll be honest, this was super scary starting this cause I’ve never put myself in this situation. My background is in an office behind the computer, at my desk. I haven’t put myself in front of groups of people in the public. Like fair enough in meetings and presentations, but organising a group of just the general public was really scary. But I was like, no I’m going to do it. This just feels right as another element. It’s like an evolution of the project and The Happy Human Project

So I’ve been doing that for a couple of months now, starting to evolve it into being more than walking, so potentially do other things. So there’ll be kind of more connection exercises. We’re thinking about maybe introducing things like meditation, breathwork, ice baths, those sorts of things, all these things that I’m also tuning into a lot more myself and see the benefits of. So I would see people, even in the Creator Club, I would see people putting these things on. I remember when I first started, I was like, oh, they sound cool, but I don’t have anything like that. I don’t have a thing, but now I’m like, well, why not? I can totally have a thing. You just need to go and study it and learn it. And I love the idea now adding these strings to my bow, and it evolves bigger than just the coaching at the minute. 

It’s funny the shift and it’s just doing this little group, this small group that started off at the beginning, it’s gotten larger. Now I really like this, I can really see, I can visualise this becoming a bigger thing. I can see taking this to different cities, different countries, whatever, just having that vision, which I would never even imagined before, especially in my old job. And it’s just amazing just how these things evolve. If you just allow them to. 

John: Yeah. Yeah, you’re building now. You’re building your world, right? You’re starting to build your different parts of your world out. It’s very addictive and very fulfilling. I think. So that was one thing that I was going to talk to you about that.

We’ll ask you about when I see the work that you’re doing now, you actively designing and creating these things all the time now, like, so, you know, one day we’ll see the Facebook groups got 200 people in it or it’s growing. And the next day I’ll like, see the walk’s gotten bigger and there’s a bunch of people around and, when you very first started, like, you know, obviously when it was new, there would have been more resistance, but wonder if you could talk about that mind shift that is, you know, possibility minded, like how you, how you now seeing the stuff as it’s.

You know, a lot of times when we start out a psych, well, I can’t really do that because I’ve never done it before. It’s like a cop because sort of language. Whereas now you’re just like, all right, I can do that. And then you just sort of stepping into it a lot more powerfully, like it’s noticeable from the outside.

What’s is that, do you notice that yourself, is that just from practicing it and kind of getting out there and building the, building it up? 

Nick: I’m definitely aware of it. Yeah. ‘Cause I talk about it a lot with my coaching and everything. The biggest thing with me is changing to the growth mindset cause I was very much an “I can’t do that” kind of person. Oh no, I can’t do that. I’m not good enough for that. My mum laughs because I mean, it’s not really funny, but I would blame my parents for giving me crap genetics. I’d be like, you made me this way. I can’t do anything. I’m crap at everything. It’s awful when I think about it now, but I obviously don’t think that anymore. And she’s very happy about that. 

Yeah, so that was very much my mindset before. I was just super negative, but now it’s like, well, if I can’t do something, then that’s okay. I could learn to do it, or I can do something else or well, let’s find out. That’s a big phrase I like to use. Let’s find out if I can do it or not.

And it’s always about when you try something new for the first time, it feels super scary. But you get one out of the way and then it’s fine. Then you’re onto the next thing. So that’s kinda how I see it. Like the Walk n’ Talk, in-person event thing, that’s just become completely normal to me now and that’s mad to me, but it’s amazing at the same time. I love it. And it just shows that shift has happened. 

I talk to people, like my friends, and I can see that mindset. I know it just takes a little shift and they can definitely do it if they’re open to it. But you need to be open to it. You need to believe that it’s possible. And I’m always like, look, if I, I need to show people the old Nick, if I can do it, anyone could do it honestly.

That’s always the best example that I could give. If you knew me before. I wouldn’t even hug people, like get away, don’t touch my face. And now I’m going up and instigating hugs at the Walk n’ Talk and being the huggy guy. That’s the shift. 

John: Yeah. Yeah. It’s pretty cool, man, because I think, you know, you think about from a business perspective and people talk about different things you can do in your business, or, you know, you can get a website built or you can.

I dunno, ran Facebook ads, or you can do some training or something like that, but the work that you’ve done in your mind in terms of the ability to now organize, connects with people. And obviously, this goes directly into, in the long run, selling, coaching, growing the program, like, do you know what I mean?

Like it’s all the same thing. And when you look at the stuff that you can spend money on and then look. You know, the mindset shift or the time and energy investment that you’ve put into that. I don’t know. It’s just super exciting. It really lights me up because it’s basically when we think about our thinking, we’ve got either an asset or a liability. Do you know what I mean? Like you’ve got a business asset now that you can basically point around 360 degrees and deploy your mind into creating opportunities for yourself, enrolling others in your vision, and helping them to step into their vision. And there’s your sales, you know what I mean?

Nick: Yeah, it’s pretty exciting. I can feel it in myself. It’s that, I don’t even know how to explain it, just that warmth. 

John: Do you want to talk about the coaching work that you do in the program maybe? And who’s it for. You mentioned corporates and general people, but what you do over the eight weeks and how it looks.

Nick: Yeah, okay. So the initial program is the eight-week breakthrough program. And in that we would work on different things that you tweak to just figure out, get really clear on what you want, figure out how you might be sabotaging yourself, getting things out of the way, and any limiting beliefs that you might have about yourself that are just stopping you, figuring out what your values are that are driving you forward and tuning into them. And then by the end of the eight weeks, it’s a consecutive thing. So it’s like two months, each week you would come and see me for an hour.

By the end of that, you would just be way more confident in yourself. Way more clear on where you want to get to. ‘Cause that, I mean, that’s the stuff that I was struggling with, right? And I know there’s loads of people that are in the same position and I just want to help them the way that a coach helped me. So, it’s super simple. It can seem really scary, not even scary, but it’s like, what even is it? Kind of how I was and I get it. I totally get that, but it’s just giving it a go. Just give it a go and see. 

A lot of the feedback I get is about the questions. Some of the questions that I ask are super simple, but they’re not the questions that we ever ask ourselves. So then by thinking about them and talking about them out loud in particular, because a lot of this stuff, you don’t talk to your friends or your partner about. ‘Cause like when you’re with your mates, it’s just a general conversation going back and forth, whatever. But with coaching, I’m here to just completely listen to you. This is your time. I’m working for you. Just thinking about those things, why do I think that, why did I do that? I don’t know. 

This is the sort of stuff that I was going through at the time as well. I haven’t really thought about it that way. It’s honestly just so simple, but having somebody to talk to and have that person that you know is there. 

In between each week, there’s action steps that I set. So it’s not homework, it’s home play, but it’s just something to do that you build on each week. As the weeks go by, maybe the action steps get bigger and that creates the momentum to create change because change doesn’t happen without taking action. That’s the whole point.

And then by the end of it you’ve been doing this stuff so much that you think completely differently at the end. 

John: Yeah. I love it. What a great, um, what a great journey, you know, for, for eight weeks it’s eight weeks straight. The base program. Yeah. Yes. And keep going. You want to keep going? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So even looking at eight weeks, if you’re 30, 35, 40, 45, 25 whatever, even, even at 20 years old, eight weeks, you’ve got like a fraction of a percentage of your life. And yet the thought work, I mean, I’ve had individual sessions with a coach or a mentor that I still. Remember that still has shaped how I see the world or remind me of questions to ask myself that change my actions during the day.

And you can’t get that in anything else. Like it’s just a, it’s just such a good trade. I actually think that coaching would be one of the most powerful, I think investments. I myself just kind of going on a tangent here, but it’s pretty crazy. You can, you can change them through curiosity, really change the software in your head, which changes decisions and actions and behaviors, which can change your entire trajectory.

Nick: Yeah. An analogy I like to use is PTs. Everybody understands what a PT is, a personal trainer. You hire a PT to help you get a better body. But like, why don’t we do that for our minds and our brains? If anything, they’re definitely on a par, if not, and I’m biased potentially, but I think it’s more important to work on your mental health over your physical health because they both work together anyway.

Like you can have this amazing body, but you can have so much shit going on in your head. We completely understand the idea of sports coaches, and you get a PT for this and the sports page for that. But the idea of a coach for personal development and that kind of area is a bit less understood.

And like you say, it’s that tiny fraction of your life. But for me, it’s like how many years are you going to waste just sitting back, hoping things are gonna change. I spent years doing it and it’s like, you can’t get that time back. I say it all the time. Time is a finite resource. It’s the most important thing we have. So, what are you waiting for? Like what, are you just gonna wait a few more years just to see how you feel, see how it pans out. How’s it been going for you so far? How’s that been going for you? It wasn’t working for me, so yeah, that’s, that’s how I do. Yeah, I love it. I think lots of people could benefit from it. But yeah, I could go on about it all day. 

John:  Awesome. Love your work. Thank you so much for sharing your time and your journey with us.

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